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| Howard Mackie |
Coming forward for the next exclusive
Vengeance Unbound interview, former long-time Ghost Rider scribe Howard
Mackie talks about just why the book was successful, why he loved the
character, and why the series ultimately failed!
1) I suppose we'll start these questions at
the beginning of the Ghost Rider timeline...the series had been
cancelled for a decade by the time 1990 rolled around, and it seemed
that Marvel had given GR nary a thought throughout the 80s. What made
you decide that Ghost Rider was a character a 90s audience would enjoy?
For that matter, what made you decide to resurrect the character?
I didn't really DECIDE that the audience would enjoy Ghost Rider, but I KNEW that I loved the character from the early series. I particularly enjoyed Marc DeMatteis' work toward the end of the first Ghost Rider series, and made sure that everyone working at Marvel knew I loved the character. I was working at Marvel (as part of the editorial staff) in the late 80's and Mark Gruenwald (then Executive Editor of Marvel) suggested I stop talking about the character and write up a series proposal.
Ghost Rider was one of the most visually interesting characters out that there—still is. How can you go wrong with a flaming skull, a leather jacket and a motorcycle? The look really gets your attention right from the start.
I believe that my passion for the character had a lot to do with the success of the second series. If I had sat around and tried to figure out what the audience would like it wouldn't have worked.
I can tell you that very few people were behind a new Ghost Rider series at that time. The sales department tried to kill the series on a number of occasions before it started. They put every roadblock in the way of the series that they could possibly create. It was only because of the work of Bobbie Chase (editor) and Tom DeFalco (editor in chief) that the series ever saw the light of day. Of course, once the initial issues sold out and went back to multiple printings the sales department hailed themselves as geniuses.
2) Right at the start, your new version of Ghost Rider seemed to skyrocket to massive popularity amongst the readers. What did it feel like to be doing a book that was challenging X-Men and Spider-Man as one of Marvel's top sellers, and what do you think were the crucial factors to this success?
It felt pretty cool. Especially since no one believed it would happen. I was in Bobbie Chase's office one day and one of Marvel's top writers came in for a visit. He saw the mock up for the cover to GHOST RIDER #1 and said, "They're bringing THAT back again?" He then looked me in the eye and told me straight out that the book would be cancelled after four issues. I took a great deal of pleasure in watching the first few issues outsell everything Marvel published at the time—including the books being written by that writer.
I think the success had lots to do with the Ghost Rider book being different from everything that was being published at the time. There was a supernatural element to the book, but it wasn't a horror title. If you think about it, Ghost Rider's look should pretty much guarantee his being a villain. So, it was really hard to categorize him.
I didn't really DECIDE that the audience would enjoy Ghost Rider, but I KNEW that I loved the character from the early series. I particularly enjoyed Marc DeMatteis' work toward the end of the first Ghost Rider series, and made sure that everyone working at Marvel knew I loved the character. I was working at Marvel (as part of the editorial staff) in the late 80's and Mark Gruenwald (then Executive Editor of Marvel) suggested I stop talking about the character and write up a series proposal.
Ghost Rider was one of the most visually interesting characters out that there—still is. How can you go wrong with a flaming skull, a leather jacket and a motorcycle? The look really gets your attention right from the start.
I believe that my passion for the character had a lot to do with the success of the second series. If I had sat around and tried to figure out what the audience would like it wouldn't have worked.
I can tell you that very few people were behind a new Ghost Rider series at that time. The sales department tried to kill the series on a number of occasions before it started. They put every roadblock in the way of the series that they could possibly create. It was only because of the work of Bobbie Chase (editor) and Tom DeFalco (editor in chief) that the series ever saw the light of day. Of course, once the initial issues sold out and went back to multiple printings the sales department hailed themselves as geniuses.
2) Right at the start, your new version of Ghost Rider seemed to skyrocket to massive popularity amongst the readers. What did it feel like to be doing a book that was challenging X-Men and Spider-Man as one of Marvel's top sellers, and what do you think were the crucial factors to this success?
It felt pretty cool. Especially since no one believed it would happen. I was in Bobbie Chase's office one day and one of Marvel's top writers came in for a visit. He saw the mock up for the cover to GHOST RIDER #1 and said, "They're bringing THAT back again?" He then looked me in the eye and told me straight out that the book would be cancelled after four issues. I took a great deal of pleasure in watching the first few issues outsell everything Marvel published at the time—including the books being written by that writer.
I think the success had lots to do with the Ghost Rider book being different from everything that was being published at the time. There was a supernatural element to the book, but it wasn't a horror title. If you think about it, Ghost Rider's look should pretty much guarantee his being a villain. So, it was really hard to categorize him.
3) Probably the biggest surprise for fans of
the original Ghost Rider was the fact that Johnny Blaze had been cast
aside in favor of Dan Ketch, a completely new character. What were your
reasons in choosing to write Dan instead of the already established
Blaze as the host for your new Ghost Rider?
I was trying to create something entirely new, while remaining faithful to the original concept. In truth, I was such a big fan of the original series, and the way it ended that, so I didn't want to jump right into the new series by undoing big chunks what Marc DeMatteis had done. Besides, from day one I had started formulating a way to bring Blaze back into the book.
I was trying to create something entirely new, while remaining faithful to the original concept. In truth, I was such a big fan of the original series, and the way it ended that, so I didn't want to jump right into the new series by undoing big chunks what Marc DeMatteis had done. Besides, from day one I had started formulating a way to bring Blaze back into the book.
4) At the height of the book's popularity,
Marvel introduced readers to the Midnight Sons "family" of titles, all
of which spun out of Ghost Rider. Did this idea originate out of a new
direction for GR, editor mandates, or something else entirely? Also,
though the Midnight Sons books started off quite strong, all the titles
except for Ghost Rider were cancelled within just a few years...why do
you think the line eventually failed?
At Marvel, at the time, almost everything at that time (and maybe still) was editorially driven. The Midnight Sons was born out of the success of the GHOST RIDER relaunch, but it completely ignored why GHOST RIDER was a success.
Anytime Ghost Rider appeared as a guest star in any book—sales went up! So, the "powers that be" decided we needed MORE Ghost Rider material. They looked at the Ghost Rider book and tried to figure out what was making it successful—"He's a pretty scary looking character," one of them said. "Pretty horrific!" said another. "Must be HORROR that sells!" a third said.
So editorial was given the edict to create a horror line of comics. I'm guessing that no one bothered to read the book that I was writing. If they had they would have noticed that I was making a real effort for Ghost Rider to be the only truly supernatural character in the book. For instance, Blackout was created as a low powered mutant that was a vampire wannabe. It wasn't until the whole Midnight Sons thing that that he became a "real" vampire. That was a mistake on my part.
Unfortunately, I allowed myself to go along with this thought process. Despite my better judgment, with the creation of the Midnight Sons, Ghost Rider became one of many horror titles. It really was a case of the cart following the horse.
Don't get me wrong, I think some of the titles in the Midnight Sons line were quite good. I just think horror titles can be difficult to sell. From what I understand, they still are. The bigger problem was that once it was created, the Midnight Sons line dictated the direction of the Ghost Rider titles.
This was occurring at a time when Marvel was being very driven by the marketing department. Titles could no longer stand by themselves. It was all about groups of books. Ghost Rider, a unique book when it was launched, was no longer allowed to stand on it's own. We had to have group meetings, decide things by committee and have all the stories tie in. It was the beginning of the end for me.
At Marvel, at the time, almost everything at that time (and maybe still) was editorially driven. The Midnight Sons was born out of the success of the GHOST RIDER relaunch, but it completely ignored why GHOST RIDER was a success.
Anytime Ghost Rider appeared as a guest star in any book—sales went up! So, the "powers that be" decided we needed MORE Ghost Rider material. They looked at the Ghost Rider book and tried to figure out what was making it successful—"He's a pretty scary looking character," one of them said. "Pretty horrific!" said another. "Must be HORROR that sells!" a third said.
So editorial was given the edict to create a horror line of comics. I'm guessing that no one bothered to read the book that I was writing. If they had they would have noticed that I was making a real effort for Ghost Rider to be the only truly supernatural character in the book. For instance, Blackout was created as a low powered mutant that was a vampire wannabe. It wasn't until the whole Midnight Sons thing that that he became a "real" vampire. That was a mistake on my part.
Unfortunately, I allowed myself to go along with this thought process. Despite my better judgment, with the creation of the Midnight Sons, Ghost Rider became one of many horror titles. It really was a case of the cart following the horse.
Don't get me wrong, I think some of the titles in the Midnight Sons line were quite good. I just think horror titles can be difficult to sell. From what I understand, they still are. The bigger problem was that once it was created, the Midnight Sons line dictated the direction of the Ghost Rider titles.
This was occurring at a time when Marvel was being very driven by the marketing department. Titles could no longer stand by themselves. It was all about groups of books. Ghost Rider, a unique book when it was launched, was no longer allowed to stand on it's own. We had to have group meetings, decide things by committee and have all the stories tie in. It was the beginning of the end for me.
5) Forty-some issues into the book, readers
were finally given your origin of the Ghost Rider with the story of the
Medallion of Power, the Blood, Zarathos, etc... an origin that seemed at
times to be somewhat convoluted and contradictory to what had been said
in previous issues at the title's beginning. How did you come up with
this story idea...in other words, what's the origin of GR's origin?
See the above answer. Some of the elements were of my creation. Others were ideas born out of group discussions in effort to make the entire line tie together.
Personally, I would have left Ghost Rider's origin a mystery. It's always, always, always better to have fans begging to know about a character's origin than to ever give it to them. You will always disappoint someone and you are left with nothing. Unless… you allow yourself to fall into the old, "Er, no… that origin we told you a few years ago… that's not the REAL origin… THIS is the real origin!" It's been done to death in comic books. It's a sales ploy. It's a gimmick and it's born out of desperation. The only thing worse is the killing of characters only to bring them back later on. Been there and done that.
6) It can be said without a doubt that during your tenure on Ghost Rider you worked with some of the best artists in the comic business...from Javier Saltares and Mark Texeira to Ron Garney, Adam Kubert, and Salvador Larroca. In your opinion, which of these artists gave you "the definitive Ghost Rider"?
That is way too tough of a question to answer. First of all, I'd wind up insulting too many people. Secondly, I really did get to work with the best guys in the business at the time. You left out a few others… John Romita Jr., Andy Kubert, Joe Kubert, Lee Weeks… are just a few who spring to mind.
Realistically, Javier and Tex set the tone for everything that followed, but every artist contributed something.
See the above answer. Some of the elements were of my creation. Others were ideas born out of group discussions in effort to make the entire line tie together.
Personally, I would have left Ghost Rider's origin a mystery. It's always, always, always better to have fans begging to know about a character's origin than to ever give it to them. You will always disappoint someone and you are left with nothing. Unless… you allow yourself to fall into the old, "Er, no… that origin we told you a few years ago… that's not the REAL origin… THIS is the real origin!" It's been done to death in comic books. It's a sales ploy. It's a gimmick and it's born out of desperation. The only thing worse is the killing of characters only to bring them back later on. Been there and done that.
6) It can be said without a doubt that during your tenure on Ghost Rider you worked with some of the best artists in the comic business...from Javier Saltares and Mark Texeira to Ron Garney, Adam Kubert, and Salvador Larroca. In your opinion, which of these artists gave you "the definitive Ghost Rider"?
That is way too tough of a question to answer. First of all, I'd wind up insulting too many people. Secondly, I really did get to work with the best guys in the business at the time. You left out a few others… John Romita Jr., Andy Kubert, Joe Kubert, Lee Weeks… are just a few who spring to mind.
Realistically, Javier and Tex set the tone for everything that followed, but every artist contributed something.
7) After six years on Ghost Rider (and nearly
every spin-off title), you decided to leave the book. Was this decided
simply because you had become tired of the book, or were there other
reasons for your departure?
See the answer to question number 5. Also, the
book had been handed off to another editor. I had worked with Bobbie
Chase from the very beginning. She and I had a great working
relationship. It's tough when a new editor comes on to a book you've
been writing for a few years and says, "This is where I want the book to
go." Tough, but the way it is. Editors are the final word when it comes
to a monthly comic book under their domain. As long as you know the
rules when you sign on—and I did—there's no room for hurt feelings.
Also, I had too much other work and had written a lot of GHOST RIDER
stories. All those things said, it was just time for a change.
Almost immediately I missed writing the adventures of Ghost Rider, Dan Ketch and Blaze.
Almost immediately I missed writing the adventures of Ghost Rider, Dan Ketch and Blaze.
8) When you were writing Peter Parker:
Spider-Man in the late 90's, you wrote a reaction issue to the
then-recent cancellation of Ghost Rider under Ivan Velez Jr.'s pen. In
this issue, it seemed as if you were trying to rework what Velez had
done on the book up until it's end...what were your thoughts on the
direction GR took after you left, and what prompted that issue of
Spider-Man?
Honestly, I didn't read too much of Ivan's work. No reflection on his writing, but it would have been too hard to do. Once I've worked on a title, I try not to look on them after I'm gone. I created the character of Dan Ketch and could see every place it deviated from what I had done, or planned to do.
That PETER PARKER issue was written at the prompting of Ralph Macchio. He wanted me to give Marvel back the Ghost Rider I had created. He was my editor, so I did it to the best of abilities. There was no offense meant toward Ivan at all.
Honestly, I didn't read too much of Ivan's work. No reflection on his writing, but it would have been too hard to do. Once I've worked on a title, I try not to look on them after I'm gone. I created the character of Dan Ketch and could see every place it deviated from what I had done, or planned to do.
That PETER PARKER issue was written at the prompting of Ralph Macchio. He wanted me to give Marvel back the Ghost Rider I had created. He was my editor, so I did it to the best of abilities. There was no offense meant toward Ivan at all.
9) Now that we've beat your past work to
death, let's move forward to the present. Do you have any upcoming
projects that you'd like to tell our readers about?
I have drifted away from comics—and vice versa. I have a number of kid's books in development with a few publishing houses. I have pitched a couple of projects to Marvel, but haven't heard anything. I won't be holding my breath—I'm part of the "old guard." That's okay—times change. I've even toyed with the concept of pitching another relaunch of Ghost Rider to Marvel, but I'm not sure if they would be receptive to the idea.
I have drifted away from comics—and vice versa. I have a number of kid's books in development with a few publishing houses. I have pitched a couple of projects to Marvel, but haven't heard anything. I won't be holding my breath—I'm part of the "old guard." That's okay—times change. I've even toyed with the concept of pitching another relaunch of Ghost Rider to Marvel, but I'm not sure if they would be receptive to the idea.
10) Mr. Mackie, thank you for taking the time
out of your busy schedule to do this interview...are there any comments
you'd like to leave with the readers before we end?
I was surprised and pleased to see that there is still interest in GHOST RIDER even though Marvel is not currently publishing a monthly title. Thanks for the chance to chat. It's been fun.
I was surprised and pleased to see that there is still interest in GHOST RIDER even though Marvel is not currently publishing a monthly title. Thanks for the chance to chat. It's been fun.
Special thanks to Mr. Mackie for being cool enough to do this interview, and I know that speaking strictly for myself...I'd buy a Ghost Rider relaunch by him in a heartbeat!
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